Curse

Lasareth · Jun 10, 2005, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pope

What you want is essentially a cheat code that takes 6 months to type in. It's still a cheat code.

I suppose killing monsters and getting experience in a single player game so you don't die to a boss is cheating too?

Stev0 · Jun 10, 2005, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaineTog

Farming is boring and repetetive.

Bingo!

Dax · Jun 10, 2005, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Heaven forbid that you need to put in time make money and aquire items. To me constant quests where getting 10 of this and that for Famer Smith is grinding. I mean to each thier own, but farming is not a mandatory thing in this game atleast from what I can tell.

Next thing people will say is that we all should be able to instantly have level 20 characters with skills and weapons for PvP...oh wait.

The Pope · Jun 10, 2005, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyeeo

And HOW is farming cheating?

Because it gives an unfair advantage. Thats what a cheat is.

Dyeeo · Jun 10, 2005, 01:35 AM // 01:35

But its NOT an unfair advantage! I dont see why the heck anyone thinks its an advantage at all. Is it just because farmers find items while you have to pay for them? Well guess what, the items you are paying for are probably from farmers and without them, there would be much less items. They are spending their time and you are paying for it. Dont like buying? Then farm. Dont like farming or buying? Then oh well, it will just take you a little bit longer. Its not like everyone has to enter pvp at the same exact time! Not that it matters to me because all I want is a set of 15k armor. Just think of it this way. Farmers are like HoHers. They both do the same thing over and over again. HoHers collect sigils and sell them. Farmers find items and sell them. Whats the difference?

Lasareth · Jun 10, 2005, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Pope, your logic is flawed. It's a choice avaiable to all, therefore nobody has an advantage. Whether they want to do it or not is their choice.

BlaineTog · Jun 10, 2005, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasaeth

It's a choice avaiable to all, therefore nobody has an advantage.

It is not a choice available to all. Many people cannot farm without, say, taking time off from their jobs. Most people's time is worth too much to blow it on farming.

Dyeeo · Jun 10, 2005, 01:48 AM // 01:48

As I stated before, farming does not take that much time! Anyone can get a decent amount of gold by farming in the time it takes to do one mission. Dont have time? They might as well take out all the ascension mission then because they take up MUCH more time.

If farming takes up too much time, and people want everyone to be totally equal, then you might as well give out celestial sigils and unid superior vigor runes because those are pretty much impossible to get for both the average farmer and normal player.

Here is a solution. Instead of killing the drops and making the monsters impossible, why not put the drops and monsters back to normal, and set like a 30 minute timer on each area. For 30 mins in each area, that area will drop items normally. After this amount of time, the drops can diminish a lot until the timer resets. This timer would be reset every 24 hours. This would work because:

1. People who do missions will get normal drops while doing missions because they will take around 30 mins (the 30 mins might have to be adjusted for later missions)

2. Farming would be a choice that even normal people can partake in. There would be no advantage to people with more time because they would have a time limit on the drops for each area.

3. This would promote people to go into all the areas of the game.

In parties, when someone has already spent their time, the loot would be split in an uneven ratio with more loot going to those that did not use their time yet. What happens when everyone in a party has used up their time? The ratio will be like normal with the loot split evenly.

What do you think?

Dax · Jun 10, 2005, 02:19 AM // 02:19

How is it cheating or unfair? Granted it takes time to get the perfect uber farmer but anyone can spend 15-20 minutes out of thier gametime to clear out a area for items (skins crafing components ect). Heck people will spend that much in town doing LFG shouts. Heck it's only a level 20 levelcap fer petes sake, we're not talking FFXI.

The Pope · Jun 10, 2005, 02:44 AM // 02:44

How can someone say that having +3 to an attribute, +1 to the rest, almost the same health (sup vigor), energy steal on hit and 20% longer enchantments is fair? Then there's the fact that people who have lots of skills unlocked can base their character around what the group needs, rather than having to find a group that needs their character.

NO ONE deserves unfair advantages. I don't care how you got it, it isn't fair and you don't deserve it. If you got it by farming, then its bad. If you got it by buying it on ebay, its bad. If you got it by playing normally, its bad.

I don't really have anything against farming in itself, I'm just against people getting unfair advantages. Farming for stuff like 15k armor and black dye is fine.

SOT · Jun 10, 2005, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pope

Farming provides a completely random chance of an unfair advantage in PvP.

That makes no sense and you know it

SOT · Jun 10, 2005, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pope

Because it gives an unfair advantage. Thats what a cheat is.

So you measure someone's skill and their ability to use that skill based on what, exactly, how they attained it with IN THE GAME means? Please!

SOT · Jun 10, 2005, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pope

How can someone say that having +3 to an attribute, +1 to the rest, almost the same health (sup vigor), energy steal on hit and 20% longer enchantments is fair? Then there's the fact that people who have lots of skills unlocked can base their character around what the group needs, rather than having to find a group that needs their character.

NO ONE deserves unfair advantages. I don't care how you got it, it isn't fair and you don't deserve it. If you got it by farming, then its bad. If you got it by buying it on ebay, its bad. If you got it by playing normally, its bad.

I don't really have anything against farming in itself, I'm just against people getting unfair advantages. Farming for stuff like 15k armor and black dye is fine.

Well, I have it, and I earned it. Whether or not I deserve it, ANET decides. i suppose you could just not play. No wait, I'm pushing reality beyond limits here.

The Pope · Jun 10, 2005, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOT

Well, I have it, and I earned it. Whether or not I deserve it, ANET decides. i suppose you could just not play. No wait, I'm pushing reality beyond limits here.

I've got runes too. But at least I don't pretend that I earned them - I was randomly allocated them by drop tables.

Dax · Jun 10, 2005, 03:24 AM // 03:24

So if someone spends hours to create a farming character and spends more time getting the drops to attain or buy the items thats an unfair advantage? Well, I guess that's true, but then again I'm sure Tiger Woods would have a unfair advantage over me in golf.

I would wholeheartedly agree with you if there was competion for the drops, but there isn't really anything that someone who spends a little extra time on can do. You may not be able to it in a week, but what's the hurry there's no monthly charge.

You know if they do nerf farming, there will be an even more of an unfair advantage on people who never got the benefits of it. Just a thought....

The Pope · Jun 10, 2005, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Tiger Woods wouldn't have an unfair advantage, he would just be a better player. There is a big difference.

Mistress Eyahl · Jun 10, 2005, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Hang on hang on. Lets just get an idea what "Farming" is for these people and how it works.

- First off, are the people who are saying "Don't want to do mind numbingly repetetive grind just to get a few items" after the items themselves or the money they'll get from selling them.

- Second, lets ask the farmers how long they have to farm to aquire.. a major rune.. 5K.. a superior rune? Because if the people who DO farm, come across a few of these quite quickly (lets say 15 minutes), then I suggest there's not much problem for OTHERS to go do the same thing if they want the same rewards.

And don't forget, everything is kept in perspective. When I was level 9 I was farming blue items and gold drops of 7 or so. Once I aqquire the skills I'll be farming in the lvl 20 areas, so it's not like only lvl 20's can farm. Just don't be greedy and run before you can walk.

Okay back to the points. Lets say the answer to point 2 is... 30 minutes +. This is why the people from the first point are mad. Rares are rares we all agree that. You shouldn't be finding gold drops everytime you walk out a zone.
BUT, it's an unfair advantage for people to get rares by spending time that other people don't want to OR CAN'T.. there are many reasons why people CAN'T spend their time sitting there farming. I think this is what the rune trader is doing now. People can still aqquire runes. Even at the rune trader, they are going to be rare! I don't think the game was designed for everyone to get runes on all pieces of their armor so easily.

So, the sum up is runes should be made available as rares. Forget that you WANT that superior vigor. I think it's going to be a lot harder to come by. People will come across the drops as they play the game, and once again it will be YAY I found a rune. Then they either use it, or sell it to a player or to the rune trader. If they then sell it to the rune trader, she has one to sell.

I think this is great. I see too many gold weapons and major runes being sold by people, they're rares for christs sake. The rune trader is going to be giving an idea of rune PRICES, so even though a drop in runes will appear (if they get rid of farming abilities), they won't become stupid prices.

Oh and remember, if they'd introduced the rune trader at the start of the game.. the farmers wouldn't have any problem with it. They'd be out there farming to re-sell to the rune trader etc.

P.s.. it's not your god given right to be rich in these games, so don't moan when it's taken away from you. If being rich is what makes a game fun for you, then find a game that allows that. They're just trying to introduce stablility into the economy so it is NOT run by players. I would love it if that happened.

Dyeeo · Jun 10, 2005, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pope

Tiger Woods wouldn't have an unfair advantage, he would just be a better player. There is a big difference.

So he was born talented and a pro at golf? Maybe to an extent but it took much training I am sure. It takes some time to create a farming character too. Actually its really not that much time but :P

Some characters are good at doing pvp but horrible at pve. Does this mean that those that are good at pve have an unfair advantage? No.

Some characters are good at soloing some mobs while other are good at being in a group. Does this mean that those that are good at soloing and farming have an unfair advantage? No.

Besides, I dont see what takes up so much time while farming.

Does it take a ton of time to create a farming character? No. If you started a character and you really really want to farm then there is a reason why AreaNet gave you four character slots. Dont have the time to create another character? Change your secondary and buy the skills. Actual farming doesnt take that much time.

I guess it all comes down to this:
Farming is basically the end game for those who want to exclusively play PvE. The end game for PvE players is getting unique looking items (15k armor, rare weapons,) getting skills and items (just for the hell of it to maybe try pvp at some time,) and helping newbies. Its going to be a long long time before the next expansion and removing such a large part of pve such as farming is going to make it a much much longer wait.

KingKryton · Jun 10, 2005, 03:55 AM // 03:55

i have finished the whole game and i am not one of these eople who likes going back and repeating thing i have done before. In othe rsingle player games i will play throught it once. i mite go back for a bit of replay value but i wont set the difficulty a bot harder cus its essentially the same game just with 2 or 3 more guys to kill :S

LEAVE FARMING ALONE OR IM GIVING UP THIS GAME

The Pope · Jun 10, 2005, 03:58 AM // 03:58

I have nothing against farming in itself. Farming for unique items should be in the game, and it's a good feature. However, giving farmers advantages in PvP for farming forces people to become farmers for a fair game.

My viewpont is essentially Farming = good/no problem, Unfair advantages = bad. People should have to work for status symbols, but not for the tools required to play the game properly.

If you're happy to farm for things like Lightning Dragon Swords and 100k armors, good luck to you. I'll be impressed when I see someone with that kind of thing. However, forcing everyone to get them in order to PvP just cheapens them. It's not special anymore if everyone has one, and forcing people to get them means that everyone will get them.